La crisis capitalista en América Latina y el rol del Estado, entrevista a Juan Kornblihtt

Entre el 9 y 13 de Marzo se realizará el “II Seminario de investigación marxista aplicada”, titulado “La crisis capitalista en América Latina y el rol del Estado” e impartido por el profesor Juan Kornblihtt. Con la intención de ilustrar un poco el contenido del seminario presentamos esta breve entrevista realizada por el Grupo de Estudios Marxistas (GEM) y el Centro de Investigación Político Social del Trabajo (CIPSTRA) que comenta algunos de los principales asuntos a tratar durante las clases.

Juan Kornblihtt es investigador CONICET, docente UBA, Economista, Doctor en Historia y militante de Razón y Revolución en Argentina.

Para los interesados, consultas sobre la inscripción y programa escribir al  seminariomarxismo2015@gmail.com

Cuando uno lee el título del seminario, lo primero que puede tender a pensar es que, si se compara las situación con algunos países de Europa, América Latina (AL) parecer estar al margen de la misma. En sentido ¿se puede hablar de una crisis en AL? Y, adelantando un poco lo que se tratará en el seminario ¿cómo se expresa y qué rol le atribuyes al Estado?

La crisis tiene un carácter mundial. Aunque el capitalismo es un modo de producción que abarca a todo el mundo a veces las crisis pueden ser locales o aisladas a algunas regiones. Lo que caracteriza la situación que se vive en particular desde 2008 o quizás desde un poco antes (2001) es que el epicentro de la crisis es en los EE.UU. y Europa. Eso hizo parecer que el resto del mundo podía estar al margen o incluso aprovechar dicha situación. En particular porque esta década vimos el fuerte crecimiento de China y de los llamados países emergentes con los BRICS a la cabeza pero también por ejemplo en toda América del Sur.

Muchos atribuyeron la diferencia en el comportamiento de los países centrales de los periféricos a que en los segundos se dio un cambio en las políticas económicas donde el Estado ya no aplicaría las recetas neoliberales de ajuste estructural a rajatabla. En cambio habría un retorno del Estado con políticas más o menos de expansión e intervención en cada país.

En el seminario vamos a debatir con esta idea a partir de una pregunta básica, de dónde sale la capacidad del Estado de intervenir en estos países. En general se piensa al Estado como un agente externo a la economía. Ya sea que la limita, ya sea que lo potencia o ya sea que es neutral y sólo garantiza el orden político y social. Al contrario, plantearemos al Estado como parte del capital y por lo tanto su intervención sólo puede pensarse a partir de analizar las condiciones de reproducción materiales en los países donde interviene .

Y ¿qué encontramos en los países dónde el Estado interviene y aparece como el impulsor de un crecimiento que haría zafar de la crisis que viven los países más ricos? Encontramos que dicha intervención se sostiene por la riqueza real o ficticia provocada por la propia crisis del capitalismo. América del Sur por ejemplo se expande por la fuerte subida del precio de las materias primas impulsado por la emisión monetaria de los EE.UU. y por la fuerte expansión de China. China a su vez se sostiene por la compra de bonos del tesoro a los EE.UU. gracias a los cuales EE.UU. mantiene un poder de compra ficticio. Es decir mostraremos que el crecimiento de quienes parecían zafar de la crisis es producto de la propia crisis.

Por eso lo que estamos viendo ahora con la caída de los precios de las materias primas y con el freno a la expansión china es que la crisis pega de lleno en los países que parecían al margen. Las mismas políticas que hasta hace unos años eran expansivas ahora son las causas de la caída. Los neoliberales se envalentonan para volver ocupar cargos burocráticos de la mano de un discurso pro mercado y de ajuste para resolver los problemas introducidos por el accionar estatal. Su avance coloca a la clase obrera en una disyuntiva. Muchos de los izquierdistas apoyan de alguna forma u otra la intervención estatal capitalista con la ilusión de que eso es factor de crecimiento y equidad. Incluso quienes llegan a hablar del Socialismo del Siglo XXI. Ante la crisis se agrupan junto a los gobiernos antineoliberales. La idea es mostrar que tanto la fase expansiva como la contractiva el rol del Estado y el personal político actúan como las dos caras de la misma moneda.

Muchas veces se ha cuestionado la capacidad explicativa de la teoría del valor, no sólo desde la intelectualidad de la clase dominante, sino de intelectuales de izquierda. En ese sentido, como militante, ¿qué ventajas crees que tiene la teoría del valor sobre las otras “perspectivas” que no la consideran a la hora de elaborar estrategias en la lucha contra el capitalismo?

El valor antes que una teoría es la expresión de una sociedad que se basa en las relaciones mercantiles entre los individuos. Es resultado de que se produce un proceso de expropiación de los medios de producción por lo que desaparece la posibilidad de autosubsistencia. Al tratarse de una sociedad de individuos libres la coacción extraeconómica no es la que ordena la producción social sino que esta debe realizarse sin que uno pueda imponerle al otro qué producir. De allí que los intercambios se realicen en forma equitativa, y por lo tanto las mercancías deben ser valoradas en forma objetiva por quienes establecen el intercambio, además de cumplir con el elemento básico de que sea útil para alguna necesidad del individuo. Lo que Marx descubre es que en este intercambio de equivalentes surge la desigualdad. El tiempo de trabajo privado socialmente necesario para producirlas es la sustancia específica común de las mercancías que permite el intercambio. La plusvalía surge del hecho de que la fuerza de trabajo al ser una mercancía se venda como cualquier otra pero con la particularidad de que su valor de uso es la fuente del valor y por lo tanto del plusvalor. Es decir, la sustancia de la ganancia capitalista.

juanA diferencia  de los modos de producción pre-capitalistas donde la desigualdad era explícita y la explotación no estaba oculta, en el capitalismo la desigualdad sale de la igualdad. Por eso es necesario un conocimiento que dé cuenta de las determinaciones de la sociedad en forma científica. Quienes niegan el valor carecen de un análisis científico de las relaciones sociales que suplantan con una mirada subjetivista, ya sea a través del individualismo metodológico ya sea a través del posmodernismo.  El problema es que gran parte de la izquierda niega el carácter científico de la lucha social y en base a la apariencia cree posible suplantar el análisis que despliega las determinaciones del valor por los sentimientos o mística popular. De esta forma no pueden analizar las determinaciones de la lucha de clases por lo que caen en el voluntarismo o en el determinismo absoluto, como dos caras de la misma moneda. La idea del seminario es analizar la lucha política a partir de un análisis que retome el socialismo científico como perspectiva de la acción revolucionaria.

En el programa del seminario se habla de “particularidades” del desarrollo del capitalismo latinoamericano. En tu opinión, ¿Cuáles son esas particularidades? ¿Tienen alguna diferencia con las “particularidades” asumidas por los adherentes a la teoría de la dependencia y demás visiones del “desarrollo” latinoamericano?

En general se piensa que las particularidades de América Latina son el resultado de alguna falla del capitalismo. Para los liberales es la excesiva intervención del Estado, para los keynesianos el excesivo peso de los mercados y la falta de un Estado fuerte, hacia la izquierda el problema pasa a ser el imperialismo y el capital monopolista que niega la ley del valor. Es decir para unos falta capitalismo (los desarrollistas) y para otros hay que luchar por una mayor autonomía nacional ya sea de la mano de la burguesía nacional ya sea construyendo un Estado independiente mediante una democracia popular radicalizada.

Desde nuestra perspectiva las particularidades de América Latina no surgen como expresión de falta o deformación del capitalismo sino como resultado de su pleno desarrollo donde la acumulación se da en forma diferencial a nivel nacional por el diferente lugar que ocupan los capitales radicados en cada país en la acumulación de capital. Dado que, como señalamos, la producción se da a través del mercado, lo que regula es la búsqueda de cada capital por valorizarse, es decir alcanzar la máxima tasa de ganancia posible. Pero en América Latina la mayor parte de los capitales son poco productivos y aunque los salarios son bajos, no lo son tanto como en China o Vietnam. El resultado es que dichas empresas para sobrevivir en la competencia necesitan de protección y subsidios estatales entre otras cosas, además de explotar a sus obreros. Como esos mismos capitales por su baja competitividad necesitan de transferencias a través del Estado la fuente tiene que ser otra. En general encontramos que en América Latina dicha fuente son las ganancias extraordinarias que se apropian por tener recursos naturales para producir mercancías no reproducibles por el trabajo humano con una productividad más alta que en el resto del mundo. La llamada renta de la tierra es entonces una de las principales fuentes para sostener a estos capitales ineficientes. Cuando nos referimos a capitales ineficientes no son sólo la burguesía nacional sino también la multinacional. A la renta de la tierra se suma la deuda externa, sobre todo a partir de los 70 y en forma creciente en algunos países como Venezuela, Brasil o Argentina una fuerte baja salarial.

En el seminario analizaremos en detalle estas particularidades y discutiremos contra la idea de que la exportación de materias primas, la deuda o la superexplotación son trabas al desarrollo del capitalismo en América Latina sino que son fuentes que compensan la baja competitividad y que por lo tanto permiten una acumulación de capital por encima de la capacidad normal. Mostraremos que las debilidades económicas de la región son resultado del normal desarrollo del capital y no resultado de la dependencia y de una fase neoliberal. Esto es clave para orientar el accionar política de la clase obrera ya que de dicho análisis se desprenden tareas políticas muy diferentes a los que sostienen lo contrario.

No en todos los países esto se expresa de misma manera, ¿podrías contarnos un poco en torno al cómo ves que se expresa esto en países tan aparentemente diferentes como Argentina y Venezuela, por un lado y Chile, por otro? 

La idea del seminario es analizar estas diferencias a partir de ver el rol de cada país en la acumulación de capital a nivel mundial. Como señalamos en general América Latina basa su inserción en la exportación de mercancías portadoras de renta diferencial de la tierra (cobre, soja, petróleo, etc.) esto se combina con capitales con baja productividad que necesitan de dicha renta para compensar su escasa competitividad. Pero dentro de esta generalidad regional hay particularidades en torno a la propiedad de la tierra por parte del Estado o terratenientes privados y en torno al valor de la fuerza de trabajo, con países con salario muy bajos que tienden a crecer en las últimas dos décadas y otros que parten de niveles más altos pero tienden  a caer. El objetivo de este seminario es poder brindar herramientas de análisis empírico que permitan avanzar en estudios de los participantes. Por ejemplo, cómo calcular las transferencias de riqueza, la tasa de ganancia a nivel de capital en su conjunto, la renta de la tierra y aproximarse al valor de la fuerza de trabajo en base a estadísticas públicas y privadas. A la vez analizaremos en particular los mecanismos de intervención estatal a través de subsidios, emisión, protección y tipo de cambio en términos de qué expresan en relación a la valorización de los capitales y la reproducción de la fuerza de trabajo. Esto permitirá tener herramientas para la discusión sobre el carácter de la intervención estatal en la actualidad y las tareas políticas de la clase obrera frente a él.

En general se intenta resolver estas particularidades en forma teórica. El marxismo en muchos casos se ha vuelto lo contrario a lo que pregonaba Marx. En lugar de estudiar las determinaciones de la situación concreta en su devenir histórico se aplican teorías como la del imperialismo, el capital monopolista o la dependencia que explican todo a partir de modelos ideales.  Como decíamos el objetivo principal del seminario es retomar la tradición del socialismo científico por sobre visiones ideologizadas que dejaron de ser herramientas para la transformación revolucionaria.

 

Por el Grupo de Estudios Marxistas (GEM) y el Centro de Investigación Político Social del Trabajo (CIPSTRA)

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